Curse

nirhan shadowmauler · Jun 26, 2008, 06:54 AM // 06:54

any smiter with half a brain doesnt need heals to stay alive anyway.

Kikuta · Jun 26, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suspicious Hermit

what the people who dont want to heal and pay fail to understand is that the runner is offering HIS SERVICE. HIS SERVICE does not necessarily include keeping his smiter alive. that is YOUR IDEA of HIS SERVICE. if HIS SERVICE doesnt float your boat, dont join. and please, please, PLEASE, dont complain about it either. complaining about another persons service and to what extent you are involved is low.
lets take the plumber. if you hire him and he shows up asking what sink to fix, are you going to not pay him? no. if he asks you to hold something for him real quick, are you not going to not pay him? maybe. if he asks you to turn his wrench a couple times, are you going to not pay him? yes.
the runner is not asking you to RUN. the runner is not asking you to APPLY ENCHANTS. the runner is asking you to HEAL HIS HERO. he cant do the run without you, and you cant do it without him.
but its HIS SERVICE anyways, so if you dont like it, gtfothanks.

So you're admitting that most runners are providing an inferior service and still charging the going 2k rate for it, and that's apparently fine?

Tyla · Jun 26, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirhan shadowmauler

any smiter with half a brain doesnt need heals to stay alive anyway.

I don't think that's to do with the smiter.

I mean, it's the 600 taking aaaarrrghhrow! (AGRO)

Kassad · Jun 26, 2008, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakefield

I agree....its like "Running to Droks 2k!! Please bring Charge!"

Exactly. If their charging for the run, they should be able to do it without party help or it's not a run anymore.

It ceases to be a run when the "runners" require the team who are being "run" to do anything besides go afk, then it's just a pug.

Channeling_Monk · Jun 26, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Let me get this straight:

You're QQing about how someone isn't letting you cheat the system as much as you want to cheat it?

If you don't want to bring woh or heal breeze, do the run yourself for free.

Kassad · Jun 26, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channeling_Monk

Let me get this straight:

You're QQing about how someone isn't letting you cheat the system as much as you want to cheat it?

If you don't want to bring woh or heal breeze, do the run yourself for free.

I hurd pve iz srs businez.

I couldn't care less, but its common sense that paying for a run means your being run and the "runners" are doing anything. If you have to do anything, its not run.

Arduin · Jun 26, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikuta

So you're admitting that most runners are providing an inferior service and still charging the going 2k rate for it, and that's apparently fine?

Seeing you get 1.5k from completing the quest, + some end-chest stuff, Treasure Chests and Locked Chests on the way to it, I'd say 2k is a bargain for only healing the runners hero.

Kikuta · Jun 26, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Seeing you get 1.5k from completing the quest, + some end-chest stuff, Treasure Chests and Locked Chests on the way to it, I'd say 2k is a bargain for only healing the runners hero.

*sigh*

The return is irrelevant. The issue is that people are providing shittier services for the standard fee, and getting away with it in mass.

Look at it this way: in one hand you have a runner that doesn't require players to heal their smiter, and in the other hand a runner that does require heals. In this scenario, both runners will kill the same number of enemies, and the players will get the exact same drops in each run - the return is the same on either run, even if the drops aren't the same (assuming you're getting runs that kill as many enemies as possible and retrieve all hidden chests - as you should be) even outside this scenario.

After all this, having been run by the two different running teams and paying the same amount, you will probably think to yourself:

"Wait a second, why did I pay 2k for a runner that needed assistance when I got the exact same return from one at the same fee that didn't need my help?"

This is even ignoring the time factor behind both runs (where a team that doesn't need assistance will generally complete the run faster).

Nick Of Troy · Jun 26, 2008, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suspicious Hermit

what the people who don’t want to heal and pay fail to understand is that the runner is offering HIS SERVICE. HIS SERVICE does not necessarily include keeping his smiter alive. That is YOUR IDEA of HIS SERVICE. If HIS SERVICE doesn’t float your boat, don’t join. And please, please, PLEASE, don’t complain about it either. Complaining about another person’s service and to what extent you are involved is low.
Lets take the plumber. If you hire him and he shows up asking what sink to fix, are you going to not pay him? No. If he asks you to hold something for him real quick, are you not going to not pay him? Maybe. If he asks you to turn his wrench a couple times, are you going to not pay him? Yes.
The runner is not asking you to RUN. The runner is not asking you to APPLY ENCHANTS. The runner is asking you to HEAL HIS HERO. He can’t do the run without you, and you cant do it without him.
But its HIS SERVICE anyways, so if you don’t like it, gtfothanks.

/facepalm

If you're going to try and use my own analogy to counteract my argument, at least have the decency to read it properly.

Quote:

I, as I'm sure many others do, define a Guild Wars run as "another character (runner) getting you from point A to B. Requires no interaction with the game environment from you (runee)"

NEW ADDITION: Dungeon Run: Happens when a player [runner] is payed a sum of gold to run (definition above) another player [runee], or group of players to the end chest of a dungeon. Contrary to a typical run, however, runees do indeed interact with the environment in order to pick up dropped items, and activate/open other chests along the way. As with the run, the dungeon runner is expected to be able to complete his task successfully with no interaction/help from runees.

Note that I explain my position very clearly. I define what I call a run in the game of Guild Wars. And now i have defined a dungeon run. I define what the majority of players who employ runners, or run themselves, define a run as. Therefore, it is not a "service" which can be modified at will by the runner, it is an agreed definition by customer and provider. I pay my gold in the knowledge that all i need to do is pick up my items, expose a chest every now and then, and thank the runner when the final chest spawns. You want to do less work? You are unable to satisfy the established criteria of the job? Then you get less pay. Logical result, says I.

Many the pro-runner posters seem to argue that the OP is just too cheap to fork out 2k for a few measly spell casts every now and then. Let me clarify: The monetary sum/Rep Points/Items gained during run/cash made during the run is irrelevant, it is the PRINCIPLE that matters. The PRINCIPLE is arbitrated through a payment of gold. Therefore, a full payment symbolises "I am 100% satisfied with the work you did, now here is your reward" NOT "gawsh mister, thanks for taking time to let me tag along healing you/your hero. I am so glad you decided i was worthy enough to give you money" (as some of you seem to think)

Also, let me clarify my plumber scenario:

1. He doesn’t need to ask what sink(run) needs doing. He knows what his job is.

2. Asking you to hold something (casting a LoD, requesting you not activate ghosts, asking you stay put until he ensures it is safe) Casting LoD yourself benefits you, as well as gives the runner an extra skill. This scenario benefits everyone involved, as well as making the run quicker and more profitable for all.

3. Turn his wrench. AKA healing, rezzing or using skills that the runner(plumber) should be competent and able to use. I believe my example of "screws up and floods the bathroom" is far more appropriate. Why should I have to pay a full fee when I am inconvienienced and forced to intervine due to his error or lack of skill?

Kassad · Jun 26, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suspicious Hermit

he cant do the run without you, and you cant do it without him.

So why are people charging for a run? If I NEED them and they NEED me, that means its not a run, its a group effort and therefore a pug.

Amadei · Jun 26, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikuta

So you're admitting that most runners are providing an inferior service and still charging the going 2k rate for it, and that's apparently fine?

Yep, it is, as people are more than willing to pay 2k AND bring a heal or two for the hero. They have to interact with the environment anyway; what's one more click? Even when I don't ask people to bring heals, they bring 'em anyway. I've had people bring Martyr, Spotless Soul, Succor to maintain on me... The only people throwing tantrums about it are the ones on this forum. If you don't like it, feel free to either do the run yourself, or find a runner who won't ask that you click your tiny little mouse button every once in a while, oh gee, THE EFFORT.

Kassad · Jun 26, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Interesting.

If i'm required to do something while being "ran", it means I am a "runner" also and should be payed.

It's only logical.

Bug John · Jun 26, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

damn, you're whining for 2k even though you're making money and farming rep points out of someone else's work, all you have to do is healing a hero now and then...

there's really something wrong with you guys

Tom Swift · Jun 26, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Why the debate?

It's like any other contract. If they told the customer up front that the cost was 2k and they expected heals and the customer accepted, then the customer signed the contract knowing what was expected of them. So, apparently, the customer agreed that it was fine.

If the customer does not wish to accept that contract, then he/she simply needs to look for another provider.

If the runner expected heals but did not tell the customers that before entering the dungeon then, AND ONLY THEN, the customers have a right to complain.

It's that simple

Nick Of Troy · Jun 26, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

damn, you're whining for 2k even though you're making money and farming rep points....there's really something wrong with you guys

I think you're the one with the problem mate, for starters you seem to lack the basic skill of READING.

Wow, I'm simply amazed at how very thick some people on this Guru are. It's as if they lack the skill of reading.

This thread is not a QQ about the effort of clicking the "tiny little mouse button every once and a while", nor is this thread a QQ about having to pay 2000 gold for someone to do all the work for you.

This thread is about the principle of clicking the tiny little mouse button while paying 2000 gold. This thread is about those who need assistence running CoF thinking they are entitled to charging the same price as someone who can run it with no assisstence.

Our basic argument is this: If we have to aid the runner in the run, why should we then be charged the full price of a proper run? Surely the fact we aided them, when they should really be self-sufficient (as many others are), entitles us to a discounted price?

This thread is not about being cheap, and its not about casting the healing spells. It is about fair pricing, and how those providing a simply inferior service should not feel entitled to charge the cost of the superior service, much less have the audacity to respond to a thread discussing it with the level of indignation, mockery and all-round immaturity I have witnessed in this one

I struggle to think of how i can make the theme clearer.

Tom, the concern I have is that if the current trend continues, bringing and using heals WILL become a normal thing that comes unsaid, and we as consumors will be paying more for less.

Jenn · Jun 26, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Well, look on the bright side, guys. If only intelligent and able players ran CoF, the price would still be 6-7k.

januscht · Jun 26, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Of Troy

Our basic argument is this: If we have to aid the runner in the run, why should we then be charged the full price of a proper run? Surely the fact we aided them, when they should really be self-sufficient (as many others are), entitles us to a discounted price?

/facepalm

why you want a discount, why not pay extra to a proper run huh?, is not being chep?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Well, look on the bright side, guys. If only intelligent and able players ran CoF, the price would still be 6b-7k.

YES YES! thanks to bad runners as they are being called you can afford the run: you should be thankful to them for lowering the prices

Rick_ · Jun 26, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

i bet everyone who's arguing for runees to heal the smiter are probably the monks who steal the build off pvx with no creativity.

ive found rits are excellent runners. i only go cof with rits these days
and really, 3man 600/smite is so much faster, you can distribute the bonds to maintain more energy regen. you can even turn spirits into friendlies, which helps alot.

yes some pugs stuff up agro, but then its their fault. having a smiter die because you suck too much to run a decent build is entirely your own fault.

paying for runs you assist with is like an ele charging people ecto at the end of an uw group - you couldnt do it without that terra after all.

Nittle Grasper · Jun 26, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Of Troy
[B

The monetary sum/Rep Points/Items gained during run/cash made during the run is irrelevant, it is the PRINCIPLE that matters.[/B]

it's completely revelent because your on the damn run because of the benefits, christ dude. Prices are based on benefits, difficulity, and how others are doing it. Why do you think the price has sunk? 1) Many others are able to do it 2) you have to heal the smiter 3) it's not difficult. If think that your getting ripped off for having to pay 2k and you having to not be afk, or having to do something for basically the first floor then do it yourself. Like I said the dunegon is easy so maybe do it yourself instead of complaining. The "runner" benefits a bit from this update because it makes sure everyone is not afk so less scammers and the customers are also able to pick up white items, that they would of missed being afk, to merch so they make more money off the run. Also why you would want to be afk during a 45-60 minutes, what's so damn interesting that your able to afk for 45-60 mins? No seriously I want to know because this thread is RLY SERIOUS.
P.S: If guild wars had principles then maybe the game wouldn't be such a miserable state

thedarkmarine · Jun 26, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

Why the debate?

It's like any other contract. If they told the customer up front that the cost was 2k and they expected heals and the customer accepted, then the customer signed the contract knowing what was expected of them. So, apparently, the customer agreed that it was fine.

If the customer does not wish to accept that contract, then he/she simply needs to look for another provider.

If the runner expected heals but did not tell the customers that before entering the dungeon then, AND ONLY THEN, the customers have a right to complain.

It's that simple

QFT. All else is really irrelevant.